1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,642 Good to know. 2 00:00:07,565 --> 00:00:09,346 I'm curious to hear how this works. 3 00:00:10,247 --> 00:00:12,849 Do you always have this on you or are you really good prepared? 4 00:00:17,155 --> 00:00:18,836 I do a lot of videos and podcasts and stuff. 5 00:00:18,856 --> 00:00:23,661 So I want it to be mobile and this helps me be mobile. 6 00:00:24,161 --> 00:00:27,105 Is it okay here in this position? 7 00:00:27,125 --> 00:00:27,646 Perfect. 8 00:00:27,666 --> 00:00:30,088 Thank you. 9 00:00:32,497 --> 00:00:40,840 Well, we'll start by the recording that transcription is a bit more difficult depending on how long it is because I don't have my accelerator with me. 10 00:00:40,859 --> 00:00:45,030 So that means if I would transcribe it to using the CPU, I don't know how long it's going to take. 11 00:00:45,573 --> 00:00:48,280 Let's see how I can do it. 12 00:00:48,259 --> 00:00:51,064 and not really have an external thing you plug in. 13 00:00:51,465 --> 00:00:58,515 An external GPU that helps my computer actually load models. 14 00:00:58,536 --> 00:01:01,820 I've used MacWisper, which is okay. 15 00:01:01,841 --> 00:01:04,965 It runs on the GPU, my Mac, to transcribe stuff. 16 00:01:06,328 --> 00:01:07,230 Okay, let's go. 17 00:01:08,813 --> 00:01:11,516 I'll try to not run into this too much. 18 00:01:12,057 --> 00:01:20,227 So everyone, as you know, I'm Kees and I'm the IT director of this beautiful publisher. 19 00:01:20,909 --> 00:01:26,296 For those of you that are new here, I'll tell you a little bit about the company, the history and the background. 20 00:01:26,917 --> 00:01:32,364 So we are an educational publisher, which means we publish books for schools. 21 00:01:32,965 --> 00:01:38,652 So we service three school types, primary education, basic school, 22 00:01:38,632 --> 00:01:47,802 secondary education, middle-bare school, and let's call it professional or vocational education, which is MBO. 23 00:01:48,003 --> 00:01:52,487 So if you learn to become a carpenter or a plumber or any of those things. 24 00:01:52,507 --> 00:01:57,813 And those three school types are serviced by three different business units in our company. 25 00:01:58,515 --> 00:02:00,436 And those business units are 26 00:02:01,227 --> 00:02:03,649 I'm afraid to say, essentially, three different companies. 27 00:02:03,989 --> 00:02:10,716 So they don't really want to work together because they all find themselves super interesting, super important. 28 00:02:11,355 --> 00:02:13,098 And they all have their own people. 29 00:02:13,157 --> 00:02:14,618 They all have their own budget. 30 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:15,920 They all have their own director. 31 00:02:16,661 --> 00:02:20,365 And they also target, well, distinguished groups, right? 32 00:02:20,384 --> 00:02:24,187 So secondary education is 12 to 18. 33 00:02:24,429 --> 00:02:26,169 Primary is 8 to 12. 34 00:02:26,310 --> 00:02:29,293 And professional is 16 to 22 something. 35 00:02:30,353 --> 00:02:38,132 And we've been one of the market leaders in creating books for companies, for schools for the past 50 years. 36 00:02:39,114 --> 00:02:43,664 And we've been wanting to get into eLearning as well, since we see things developing here. 37 00:02:44,126 --> 00:02:48,717 So we first started getting into eLearning about three years ago. 38 00:02:48,697 --> 00:02:52,406 And then we didn't really have a capability of developing software ourselves. 39 00:02:52,907 --> 00:02:59,802 So we got an external company in Poland to build the first e-learning system. 40 00:02:59,823 --> 00:03:04,393 So this is an application that targeted secondary education. 41 00:03:04,372 --> 00:03:18,961 where our authors, so the people who usually write the books, can use some sort of a CMS-like interface to create educational content and then this is played back to students and students can make questions, lessons and questions there. 42 00:03:18,981 --> 00:03:26,195 But this system, well, we want to basically rebuild this system for a couple of reasons. 43 00:03:26,935 --> 00:03:32,122 Well, strategy-wise, we want to become an online first company. 44 00:03:32,143 --> 00:03:37,191 So we want to become one of the market leaders in the Netherlands for e-learning for those three school types. 45 00:03:37,591 --> 00:03:46,664 So we want to have this capability in-house, where our own people develop these systems and we can quickly change stuff, etc. 46 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:59,524 Coincidentally and funny enough, those three business units have all individually asked me to build them an e-learning system. 47 00:04:00,044 --> 00:04:03,468 So from their perspective, they will all get their own unique system. 48 00:04:04,088 --> 00:04:05,211 But I'm smarter than that. 49 00:04:05,510 --> 00:04:11,598 And I know that if they are somewhat the same, so we can probably build one system and reuse it for all of them. 50 00:04:12,219 --> 00:04:18,408 Or maybe three systems that we use something or, you know, but that's kind of something we need to figure out. 51 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:23,975 So we want to make this our core capability, build those systems ourselves. 52 00:04:24,857 --> 00:04:27,300 And also the old system, 53 00:04:28,158 --> 00:04:40,103 It wasn't really flexible, so it didn't have much different ways to ask questions to students, only five different question types, so radio buttons, drop-down checkboxes and two others. 54 00:04:41,165 --> 00:04:46,538 It had scalability problems, so it often became slow at like 8.39 am in the morning. 55 00:04:46,517 --> 00:04:56,071 It was down every now and then, and it was also quite difficult for authors to change the educational content in there. 56 00:04:56,310 --> 00:05:02,639 So often when an author wants to change something, they need a developer to change stuff, to help them to change stuff. 57 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,081 So what we want, yes? 58 00:05:04,942 --> 00:05:07,947 So what I hear you say is two things. 59 00:05:08,487 --> 00:05:16,338 Educational is, okay, you present information or data to a student, and you also expect the student to ask questions about 60 00:05:17,045 --> 00:05:22,172 Answer questions. 61 00:05:22,992 --> 00:05:28,800 How we envision those systems work is they replace the books that are currently used in the classroom. 62 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:35,790 In the classroom you usually have a book that explains stuff and you have a workbook or a practice book where you answer questions. 63 00:05:36,971 --> 00:05:40,437 This system is going to be used by students and teachers. 64 00:05:40,923 --> 00:05:52,557 So a student logs into the system, then picks their class or group, which is tied to a school and a course and those kind of things. 65 00:05:52,576 --> 00:05:58,663 And let's say they are on secondary education, then a second learning year, and they're going to pick biology as a course. 66 00:05:58,684 --> 00:06:08,095 Then the system should show all the educational content that's present for secondary education, second year biology, which is probably about 67 00:06:08,293 --> 00:06:14,180 Let's say 40 lessons and a couple of assessments. 68 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,382 I'll explain about those in a bit. 69 00:06:17,444 --> 00:06:19,125 Would be nice if I could write somewhere. 70 00:06:19,165 --> 00:06:21,127 Let me go over there. 71 00:06:21,148 --> 00:06:21,708 So 40. 72 00:06:22,249 --> 00:06:23,069 Yeah, about 40. 73 00:06:23,290 --> 00:06:28,555 So the content for one school type course learning year. 74 00:06:30,757 --> 00:06:32,940 School type course learning year. 75 00:06:33,961 --> 00:06:35,262 Should look something like this. 76 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:41,665 Lesson one, lesson two, lesson three, lesson four, assessment one, lesson five, lesson six. 77 00:06:42,947 --> 00:06:51,235 So a lesson will be about the content that's necessary for a one-hour in-classroom lesson for a teacher. 78 00:06:51,755 --> 00:06:59,343 So our system is meant to be used in a classroom where a teacher stands in front of a class and the students use this system. 79 00:06:59,944 --> 00:07:03,646 So a lesson consists of a sequence of pages. 80 00:07:04,757 --> 00:07:10,605 And the page is basically a page that, well, could be a page in your book, but in this case, a page that fits on your screen. 81 00:07:11,326 --> 00:07:13,548 And the page consists of one of more blocks. 82 00:07:14,548 --> 00:07:18,713 It's how we've envisioned this together with our content architect. 83 00:07:19,053 --> 00:07:27,064 This is the guy from Belgium, actually, who basically has told a little bit about how our content structure should look. 84 00:07:27,944 --> 00:07:34,512 And a block can be either of which text can be an asset. 85 00:07:35,369 --> 00:07:41,879 And an asset is image, video, or audio, or it can be a question. 86 00:07:42,779 --> 00:07:46,886 And a question, this is where we want to distinguish ourselves from our competitors. 87 00:07:47,367 --> 00:07:56,581 So most competitors, like Snuppert and Tim and Moloff, they have a limited set of ways to ask questions to students, maybe five or something. 88 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:03,350 So we want to give our authors here, the people who create the educational content, about 20 to 25 89 00:08:04,072 --> 00:08:07,637 different ways that they can phrase a question to a student. 90 00:08:07,658 --> 00:08:19,555 So radio button, drop-down, checkboxes, but also drag and drop, fill in the blanks, underline words, connect left and right, move stuff into the right order. 91 00:08:19,896 --> 00:08:30,350 So about 20 different ways where a student can interact with the system, where our authors can pick the best way, didactically, to phrase a question to a student. 92 00:08:30,853 --> 00:08:33,177 What does didactically mean? 93 00:08:33,918 --> 00:08:36,061 For the best teaching experience. 94 00:08:36,081 --> 00:08:48,336 So the author should decide for every question they ask, which of those 25 interaction types should I use to get the best possible learning experience? 95 00:08:48,615 --> 00:08:50,357 And is that the author you mean? 96 00:08:50,719 --> 00:08:52,701 Do you have that in-house? 97 00:08:53,001 --> 00:08:54,043 Yes. 98 00:08:54,073 --> 00:08:59,120 No, so the teachers do not influence what's in the system, only we do. 99 00:08:59,701 --> 00:09:04,547 And those authors, those are people that are employed by the business units we have. 100 00:09:04,567 --> 00:09:15,779 So every business unit has about, I don't know, 30 or 40 authors, which are either people who are employed by them or our freelancers who are already, well, subject matter experts. 101 00:09:15,799 --> 00:09:20,044 So in this system, I expect two groups of people to be important. 102 00:09:21,506 --> 00:09:22,207 One group is you. 103 00:09:22,542 --> 00:09:25,905 the engineers, and one group is the authors. 104 00:09:26,787 --> 00:09:38,139 So how it should work is that you are responsible for building the e-learning system, which display content, serves those questions, and also checks those questions. 105 00:09:38,801 --> 00:09:44,888 And the authors should create the educational content that goes into your system and that playbacks the content. 106 00:09:44,868 --> 00:09:47,313 So with the previous system, it was quite funny. 107 00:09:47,895 --> 00:09:58,624 If I would ask to the engineers what have you built, then they say, we've built an amazing e-learning system that can host the content that's trivial to make. 108 00:09:58,687 --> 00:10:04,456 And then if we would ask the authors, they would say, we've created amazing educational content that lives in this trivial engineering system. 109 00:10:04,738 --> 00:10:11,128 So they all find each other's work or their own work the most interesting, but in general, you need both. 110 00:10:11,388 --> 00:10:18,359 So these are going to create the actual content, because I don't expect you to know about biology, mathematics, those kind of things. 111 00:10:18,379 --> 00:10:22,164 You're going to build a, let's say, a scalable engineering system for that. 112 00:10:22,297 --> 00:10:25,222 Just a question. 113 00:10:25,243 --> 00:10:44,759 So the actors that we know, the children that are going to be doing the lessons and the authors that do the content, but are there other actors actually that will review the results or administer it because it's kind of a CMS as you have explained it. 114 00:10:44,740 --> 00:11:06,311 where a year contains a number of lessons and the pages and pages contain different kinds of blocks and these blocks contain different types of inputs, basically, or interactions, let's say, and assets. 115 00:11:06,912 --> 00:11:10,636 But are there any other people who are going to use the system? 116 00:11:11,477 --> 00:11:14,663 No, I think in general, these are the most important groups. 117 00:11:14,643 --> 00:11:18,893 So students use a system to make lessons and assessments. 118 00:11:18,913 --> 00:11:22,621 Authors should use a system to create or alter the educational content. 119 00:11:23,143 --> 00:11:23,744 And then teachers. 120 00:11:24,326 --> 00:11:24,787 Teachers. 121 00:11:25,928 --> 00:11:27,994 Yes, so teachers. 122 00:11:28,565 --> 00:11:33,130 Basically, what we want to do is make the life of teachers as easy as possible by using this system. 123 00:11:33,631 --> 00:11:43,605 So where in the books variant, teachers will need to basically teach and manually help students and check all those questions, et cetera. 124 00:11:44,505 --> 00:11:46,389 But we want to automate this as much as possible. 125 00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:52,376 So how we envision this is that the teacher goes into a classroom, the children, the students sit there. 126 00:11:52,697 --> 00:11:55,280 The teacher says, OK, class, open. 127 00:11:55,884 --> 00:12:03,346 I don't know, secondary education, the second year open lesson three from biology, for example. 128 00:12:03,832 --> 00:12:09,940 Then the classroom opens lesson three, and then the teacher can sit behind their desk, relax, and see this overview. 129 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,166 This is a matrix that real time shows the progress of students in lessons. 130 00:12:15,606 --> 00:12:19,191 So the progress we mean, how far is a student in a lesson? 131 00:12:19,932 --> 00:12:24,876 And can be like, which questions did they make, which answers did they get right or wrong? 132 00:12:24,897 --> 00:12:26,298 So you could see there's something like this. 133 00:12:26,359 --> 00:12:28,861 There's student one, student two, student three. 134 00:12:29,365 --> 00:12:31,610 Question one, question two, question three. 135 00:12:31,630 --> 00:12:34,860 When they start, they're just open circles. 136 00:12:36,484 --> 00:12:41,839 Once they answer the question, it will show a check mark. 137 00:12:42,325 --> 00:12:44,509 or cross if they filled the question. 138 00:12:44,889 --> 00:12:51,822 So here the teacher can see while they sit behind their desk real-time updating the screen with how far are students. 139 00:12:51,841 --> 00:12:59,014 So if the teacher sees something like this, cross, cross, cross, you'll say, okay, group, I see that you have some trouble with question three. 140 00:12:59,514 --> 00:13:06,206 Let me put it up on the screen and then give you some explanation. 141 00:13:06,405 --> 00:13:09,769 Yeah, well, they see it, they get feedback on the question in lesson. 142 00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:15,597 So if you answer a question, you have usually three tries, and then after that, it will show you the correct question. 143 00:13:17,380 --> 00:13:24,789 So this will allow the teacher to see how the class is doing, maybe put up lessons on screen for the group to explain something, et cetera. 144 00:13:24,809 --> 00:13:28,294 I was talking about lessons and assessments. 145 00:13:29,056 --> 00:13:31,119 So lessons and assessments are essentially the same. 146 00:13:31,578 --> 00:13:35,163 They follow the same structure, so pages, blogs, et cetera. 147 00:13:35,548 --> 00:13:36,470 There are two differences. 148 00:13:37,171 --> 00:13:40,495 So an assessment is meant to check your knowledge. 149 00:13:40,515 --> 00:13:43,201 You can see it as a test or proof of error or something. 150 00:13:43,660 --> 00:13:45,123 An assessment is not an exam. 151 00:13:45,443 --> 00:13:49,190 So an exam is something officially that's nationwide arranged. 152 00:13:49,250 --> 00:13:50,572 They're separate systems for this. 153 00:13:51,091 --> 00:13:52,495 This is meant just for practicing. 154 00:13:53,014 --> 00:13:54,758 So an assessment will check your knowledge. 155 00:13:54,898 --> 00:13:56,139 It will also get a grade. 156 00:13:56,407 --> 00:14:01,475 So the difference between a lesson and an assessment are, in an assessment you won't see where your answer is right or wrong. 157 00:14:02,717 --> 00:14:13,317 You will get a grade for your assessment right after you finish it, and an assessment is time bound, meaning that a lesson you can open at any time of the day, at any day of the year, you can open any lesson. 158 00:14:13,336 --> 00:14:19,106 So there's no guaranteed order or something, not you can open lesson three or lesson two, you can open these whenever you want. 159 00:14:19,086 --> 00:14:20,648 The assessments need to be planned. 160 00:14:20,828 --> 00:14:29,056 So the teacher is going to say, next Friday from 9 to 10, you're all going to be in a classroom with me and we're going to make assessment one for biology. 161 00:14:29,076 --> 00:14:42,167 Then the teacher assigns a time slot, which is next week, Friday, 9 to 10, selects the group of students that are going to make the assessment, and then those students can open the assessment at 9 in the morning next week. 162 00:14:43,388 --> 00:14:49,092 If the time passes, so if it's 10, then the assessment should only make me close and give the grade to students. 163 00:14:49,072 --> 00:15:05,455 So maybe if somebody is sick and they can't make the assessment, the teacher can decide to either have this person make the assessment remote, but if it doesn't trust the person, then they can remove them from the group and need to come back to school another time to make the assessment. 164 00:15:05,475 --> 00:15:11,383 So this is all meant to be used in classrooms, although you should be able to use it from the entire world. 165 00:15:11,403 --> 00:15:17,510 So if somebody wants to make homework or is on a holiday, they should still be able to make those lessons. 166 00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:24,260 So are we talking how wide would the system be used concurrently? 167 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,086 Is it going to be used by multiple schools at the same time? 168 00:15:27,647 --> 00:15:33,275 Yeah, so we want to become market leader in the Netherlands for this. 169 00:15:34,317 --> 00:15:40,849 And our current market of schools are let's say 400 primary education. 170 00:15:42,144 --> 00:15:50,895 We have about 250 secondary education schools that are customers and about 100 of professional education. 171 00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:59,927 So if we think in terms of number of users, let's say the primary schools, because those are the biggest ones, they have eight learning years, right? 172 00:16:00,168 --> 00:16:01,889 Group 1 till Group 8. 173 00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:07,538 And usually they have around two groups in every learning year, Group 1 and Group 1B. 174 00:16:08,118 --> 00:16:11,022 And there's usually about, let's say on average, 30 students in the school. 175 00:16:12,065 --> 00:16:23,619 So for primary education we expect if we become really successful 400 times 8 times 2 times 30, about 200k concurrent users. 176 00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:25,585 But currently we have 177 00:16:26,864 --> 00:16:27,804 zero concurrent users. 178 00:16:28,365 --> 00:16:33,693 We're going to build the system, try to sell it to schools, and get schools to onboard to use the system. 179 00:16:33,714 --> 00:16:38,000 So we will probably not have 200k concurrent users for private education on day one. 180 00:16:39,302 --> 00:16:43,229 But after a year or so, maybe after two years, we expect to have this. 181 00:16:43,249 --> 00:16:45,312 So the system should be scalable. 182 00:16:45,292 --> 00:16:51,839 to that extent is that we don't need to buy infrastructure for 200k concurrent users if you only have two. 183 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:57,183 But the infrastructure should grow and scale once we onboard more users on the system. 184 00:16:58,544 --> 00:16:58,985 How many teachers? 185 00:17:00,927 --> 00:17:01,589 How many teachers? 186 00:17:02,909 --> 00:17:11,838 Well, it's about one per group, so that's 200k times divided by 30, so that's about 187 00:17:13,777 --> 00:17:15,941 seven seven thousand or something. 188 00:17:17,384 --> 00:17:26,580 Is there a difference between the you're explained that there there's like a big mathematics block made by the office? 189 00:17:26,641 --> 00:17:30,367 Is there a difference between the different schools or is it for everybody in the same? 190 00:17:30,904 --> 00:17:33,809 Every, well, there are three different school types. 191 00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:38,317 So every school type has their own content because primary education is also going to use in secondary. 192 00:17:38,718 --> 00:17:41,643 There's no distinction between the content that schools get. 193 00:17:41,663 --> 00:17:48,374 So every content in theory can get access to, every school in theory can get access to every piece of content we have. 194 00:17:48,394 --> 00:17:53,082 Do you have an idea of how many, how many 195 00:17:54,057 --> 00:18:16,538 I would like to have a handle on the scale in the first stages of development of the system or that it writes this is because at some point it's going to be able to handle 200k what is acceptable for a test environment in the beginning for to demo to you as a business what is available also in terms of users that can participate in the beginning for 196 00:18:16,518 --> 00:18:20,625 Yeah, usually that while testing we need to do obviously ourselves. 197 00:18:21,266 --> 00:18:37,394 Usually we can also get a group of friendly schools to do some sort of a pilot with the system, but then we're talking at max a couple of tens of concurrent users because in terms of pilot schools that maybe we will get 198 00:18:37,375 --> 00:18:40,378 I don't know, five pilot schools, one or two groups per school. 199 00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:42,461 So it's not that much in terms of use. 200 00:18:42,481 --> 00:18:46,147 They may only use it for one course in one group or something. 201 00:18:46,327 --> 00:18:49,573 So they can help us at that system. 202 00:18:54,118 --> 00:19:01,670 So for us, there's quite a difference in availability inside and outside school hours. 203 00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:06,656 So school hours are 8.30 until 5. 204 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:11,775 Inside those school hours on weekdays, we should be up as much as possible. 205 00:19:12,516 --> 00:19:15,799 Outside those school hours, it doesn't really matter that much. 206 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,521 If you're down at 3 a.m. 207 00:19:17,803 --> 00:19:22,689 in the night, well, maybe somebody is awake at night and wants to make homework, they can't use the system. 208 00:19:23,088 --> 00:19:24,230 That's not a big issue for us. 209 00:19:25,251 --> 00:19:28,655 You said that people around the world should do it. 210 00:19:28,675 --> 00:19:29,877 Yeah. 211 00:19:29,897 --> 00:19:31,319 Currently, we target the Dutch market. 212 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:32,801 Yeah. 213 00:19:32,821 --> 00:19:34,784 What do you mean by as much as possible? 214 00:19:34,804 --> 00:19:35,325 Yes. 215 00:19:35,345 --> 00:19:36,465 And this is a great question. 216 00:19:36,767 --> 00:19:37,166 Why? 217 00:19:38,969 --> 00:19:39,890 This is a great question. 218 00:19:39,930 --> 00:19:44,537 Why I'm not getting one out because as much as possible doesn't say anything. 219 00:19:44,817 --> 00:19:45,157 All right. 220 00:19:46,078 --> 00:19:46,640 Yeah. 221 00:19:46,660 --> 00:19:55,212 So as much as possible means, well, I cannot really express this in, in percentage or nines, but let's say that we can get away. 222 00:19:55,973 --> 00:19:56,855 We can get away. 223 00:19:56,954 --> 00:20:01,602 So we won't lose customers with one hour of downtime per month. 224 00:20:03,758 --> 00:20:09,826 which means that one hour downtime per month during school hours means that we miss one lesson. 225 00:20:09,846 --> 00:20:12,509 And it's a shame for that lesson, but I don't know, they can do something else. 226 00:20:13,050 --> 00:20:17,817 If you're down for two hours or two times one hours, we already start losing customers. 227 00:20:18,337 --> 00:20:29,032 If you have that live screen for the teachers, so you can see the progress, what is the trade-off between availability and consistency there? 228 00:20:29,252 --> 00:20:32,617 Do you want to be always show something at least? 229 00:20:32,817 --> 00:20:36,082 I do not know what those terms means. 230 00:20:36,461 --> 00:20:39,787 So can you explain it to a poor IT manager like me? 231 00:20:40,969 --> 00:20:48,660 Well, we all always want to show information there and the eventual consistent which I don't know what that means. 232 00:20:53,467 --> 00:20:59,736 So you don't show always the right value there, but eventually it will show the right value. 233 00:20:59,851 --> 00:21:11,614 Yeah, so it's important that this shows the right values, but the main reason why the teacher uses this is to basically, whenever a student struggles with one question, they can help them. 234 00:21:11,634 --> 00:21:21,031 For example, if a teacher sees this as four, they may want to go to talk to this student to ask what's going on, the teacher can't die or whatever. 235 00:21:21,551 --> 00:21:31,073 So this should give the teacher enough insights to stop the whole group or to talk to a single student, if necessary. 236 00:21:32,587 --> 00:21:42,305 Is there a requirement that there needs to be an interface with the school itself for the grades? 237 00:21:42,424 --> 00:21:44,167 Yes, and that is not there. 238 00:21:44,709 --> 00:21:53,904 So the grades that the students get for their assessments, well, they're visible in the progress screen for an assessment, 239 00:21:53,884 --> 00:22:00,355 And only a fraction of those grades actually ends up in the school administration system. 240 00:22:00,375 --> 00:22:07,426 And for now, the school administration system are systems like magister, where all the students are in there, their roster is in there, their grades are in there, etc. 241 00:22:07,988 --> 00:22:11,354 So those systems we don't need to integrate with at this point. 242 00:22:11,433 --> 00:22:12,615 We may need to in the future. 243 00:22:12,997 --> 00:22:17,704 But for now, we expect teachers to copy the grades from here into the school administration system. 244 00:22:17,724 --> 00:22:19,807 So there's no external integration at this point? 245 00:22:21,829 --> 00:22:26,916 I didn't say that. 246 00:22:27,397 --> 00:22:31,903 Is there an external integration that we need to be aware of? 247 00:22:31,923 --> 00:22:36,089 Yes, so we need to be aware of that we have an existing IAM system. 248 00:22:37,172 --> 00:22:41,377 And this is a system that handles login by students. 249 00:22:41,397 --> 00:22:45,763 So we already built this for the previous IAM system. 250 00:22:46,244 --> 00:22:50,570 This is a system that's built by a team that's already in-house with us. 251 00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:57,362 And this system basically links to a couple of school systems. 252 00:22:57,682 --> 00:23:07,640 So the current architecture for the old e-learning system is there's an e-learning system, here's our IM system, and here are three or four school systems. 253 00:23:08,059 --> 00:23:12,688 Let's say Magister and I don't know what they are. 254 00:23:12,909 --> 00:23:16,795 So there's trust relationships between these systems. 255 00:23:16,775 --> 00:23:23,262 So whatever happens is a student logs into their school system, then they click go to the publisher. 256 00:23:23,483 --> 00:23:27,148 Us, they will get redirected in their browser to the IM system. 257 00:23:27,749 --> 00:23:30,893 The IM system will show a list of courses. 258 00:23:31,473 --> 00:23:35,880 Whenever they click a course, they will get redirected to the editing system. 259 00:23:36,619 --> 00:23:40,804 How this exchange works is this is, it's something we build ourselves. 260 00:23:41,244 --> 00:23:51,314 It's comparable to OAuth, so there will be, let's see, in this call, a code will be passed in the URL, and then this system will make a request to the IM system. 261 00:23:51,694 --> 00:23:59,702 There's a web service here, and this will give back the ID of the student, which is usually like something at school.nl. 262 00:24:00,363 --> 00:24:02,204 It will give the brin code. 263 00:24:02,859 --> 00:24:11,710 You all obviously know what it is, but it's the basis registration, instelling a number, which is basically the school ID. 264 00:24:11,809 --> 00:24:15,835 It's a four digit and digit and letter code that uniquely identifies a school. 265 00:24:17,076 --> 00:24:21,240 And then there's the first name, last name of the student. 266 00:24:21,622 --> 00:24:29,391 So once this happens, we know what the unique ID is, which school they belong to, and what their first name and last name is. 267 00:24:30,046 --> 00:24:33,212 Well, it's usually like student number at school.nl. 268 00:24:34,255 --> 00:24:44,577 But we can be sure enough that it's unique over all these different school systems. 269 00:24:45,554 --> 00:24:47,395 Yes, well, not me personally. 270 00:24:47,415 --> 00:24:50,739 I did some PL SQL 30 years ago. 271 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,383 This is built by a team that's already in house with us. 272 00:24:54,883 --> 00:25:00,429 And they're also developing and maintaining this, because when we're building this, we were foreseeing to build more systems in the future. 273 00:25:00,828 --> 00:25:05,354 And the nice thing is that we only need to care about this interface, and we don't need to care about all this stuff. 274 00:25:05,374 --> 00:25:06,674 This is already handled for us. 275 00:25:08,336 --> 00:25:12,601 Is it also, how will the courses end up in that system? 276 00:25:12,621 --> 00:25:13,501 Is that something that we need 277 00:25:14,106 --> 00:25:14,748 In this system? 278 00:25:16,330 --> 00:25:16,570 Yes. 279 00:25:17,031 --> 00:25:23,564 So every course has a unique ID, which is an ISBN. 280 00:25:23,844 --> 00:25:25,207 You can find it also on books here. 281 00:25:25,646 --> 00:25:29,634 ISBN is a unique standardized identifier for educational content. 282 00:25:30,134 --> 00:25:34,983 So these ISBNs need to be loaded into the IEM system. 283 00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:40,957 There's already an interface there, whereas you can be uploaded or configured. 284 00:25:40,977 --> 00:25:48,028 So the IM system also knows which courses are available to show to students there. 285 00:25:48,048 --> 00:25:59,726 And obviously these ISBNs, they are unique identifiers for a school year course, sorry, school type course learning year. 286 00:26:00,205 --> 00:26:03,351 So secondary education, 287 00:26:04,241 --> 00:26:13,096 course is biology, learning year is second year, and this is the chunk of content I was talking about, those 40 lessons and assessments, and this has one ICBM. 288 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:19,067 So an ICBM uniquely identifies a set of content for a school type, for a course, for a given learning year. 289 00:26:23,534 --> 00:26:24,816 Does the system also find the new teachers? 290 00:26:25,217 --> 00:26:27,059 No, so teachers, this system only handles students. 291 00:26:28,828 --> 00:26:33,914 And so we are going to be tracking the progress. 292 00:26:34,275 --> 00:26:41,804 And do we have any kind of system constraints when it comes to technologies that we are allowed to use for database? 293 00:26:41,824 --> 00:26:44,646 No, not really. 294 00:26:45,186 --> 00:26:46,348 We have expertise. 295 00:26:47,569 --> 00:26:54,718 We have a couple of developers in our already that know about Java, Spring, Angular, AWS. 296 00:26:55,086 --> 00:26:56,528 and relational databases. 297 00:26:56,949 --> 00:27:01,996 So those are fine to use, but I'm open to anything that you suggest there. 298 00:27:02,036 --> 00:27:06,300 We need to be scalable, so that makes sense to go for a public cloud solution. 299 00:27:06,381 --> 00:27:07,502 We're fine to use that as well. 300 00:27:07,823 --> 00:27:15,913 We have some AWS experience in the company, but we're fine with all our cloud providers as well. 301 00:27:22,946 --> 00:27:23,207 Yeah. 302 00:27:23,528 --> 00:27:25,470 And this is a relevant question. 303 00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:26,171 Why? 304 00:27:28,272 --> 00:27:33,419 Because if it's real time, it has to be effective enough for the teacher. 305 00:27:33,439 --> 00:27:36,082 And we need to know what is effective for the teacher. 306 00:27:36,102 --> 00:27:36,261 Yeah. 307 00:27:36,982 --> 00:27:40,366 So the question actually is case, what do you mean real time, right? 308 00:27:40,386 --> 00:27:40,487 Yeah. 309 00:27:40,507 --> 00:27:40,606 Okay. 310 00:27:40,767 --> 00:27:41,607 Well, ask the question. 311 00:27:43,150 --> 00:27:43,770 Ask the question. 312 00:27:44,932 --> 00:27:45,532 What do you mean real time? 313 00:27:45,573 --> 00:27:47,194 Real time, like we all know real time. 314 00:27:47,255 --> 00:27:49,376 So it updates a couple of times per minute or something. 315 00:27:50,503 --> 00:27:56,194 So like, like, like median, like 30 seconds would be acceptable? 316 00:27:56,455 --> 00:28:00,564 Yeah, because because the student takes about a minute to answer a question. 317 00:28:00,584 --> 00:28:03,670 So if it updates two times a minute, that's that's real time enough. 318 00:28:07,025 --> 00:28:15,192 Well, why this is always one of my favorite moments is because you're already thinking server push, web sockets, streaming data, Kafka, whatever, right? 319 00:28:15,472 --> 00:28:18,536 But case just has an entirely different concept of real time than you have. 320 00:28:18,556 --> 00:28:24,561 So probably just window dot set interval fetch, 30,000 will do fine for this. 321 00:28:26,344 --> 00:28:32,369 You said there's an login service for IAM, only for students. 322 00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:32,529 Yeah. 323 00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:33,471 Similar thing for 324 00:28:33,890 --> 00:28:34,190 No. 325 00:28:35,030 --> 00:28:37,753 Yeah, so we should have a facility for this. 326 00:28:37,894 --> 00:28:39,996 We currently don't have it in the old system. 327 00:28:40,415 --> 00:28:43,939 Teachers log into the system directly. 328 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:52,366 So yeah, you're free to design this, how you would like it. 329 00:28:54,088 --> 00:28:57,711 Not foreseen any time in the future, but parents can already log in here. 330 00:28:58,012 --> 00:28:59,933 So they can see results. 331 00:29:00,375 --> 00:29:02,817 They don't need to have access to the learning material for students. 332 00:29:03,353 --> 00:29:04,654 Are these the biggest risks, right? 333 00:29:04,674 --> 00:29:11,165 So you have the quality of the content, I think that's something we cannot influence in this system. 334 00:29:11,666 --> 00:29:17,135 What do you then see as the biggest risk? 335 00:29:17,696 --> 00:29:22,424 What do you want to minimize? 336 00:29:23,417 --> 00:29:34,760 I think the biggest risk I see is that we need to start creating a lot of content quite quickly to be done in time. 337 00:29:36,377 --> 00:29:40,244 Do we have test content that we can integrate in our first trials? 338 00:29:40,325 --> 00:29:40,465 No. 339 00:29:40,486 --> 00:29:41,907 Do we need to create that first? 340 00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:48,259 Yeah, so we have actually content in terms of text and images that we used in the previous system. 341 00:29:48,641 --> 00:29:54,352 We have content and text and images for our books, but we need to start creating the content for this system from scratch, basically. 342 00:29:54,372 --> 00:29:59,701 Because the old content only has five types, for example, of input and we need to go for 343 00:29:59,682 --> 00:30:02,164 Yeah, we may want to revisit the old contents. 344 00:30:02,184 --> 00:30:07,152 So the end table need to be lots of work done by authors to create the educational content. 345 00:30:09,134 --> 00:30:21,910 No, we don't we don't have vision that they may open the old interface copy paste some content from there, but we don't need any migration of data from the system. 346 00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:23,192 Yeah. 347 00:30:24,099 --> 00:30:29,694 Yeah, so we need to have the capability for authors to create content. 348 00:30:29,714 --> 00:30:38,700 So their flow will be somewhat like create a lesson, test a lesson in their content creation tool. 349 00:30:39,135 --> 00:30:45,162 then publish the lesson to some kind of test environment, log into the test environment, see how it looks in the system. 350 00:30:46,262 --> 00:30:57,893 So let's test then somebody, for example, like the content manager, the person who oversees all biology content for secondary education will maybe approve, and then we'll publish it to production. 351 00:30:57,913 --> 00:31:02,917 So the workflow for content is create it, test it, review it, and then publish it into production. 352 00:31:04,278 --> 00:31:07,422 Whether this is a system we build or not, 353 00:31:07,402 --> 00:31:08,525 is up to you. 354 00:31:09,647 --> 00:31:11,854 So there's, I think, three options. 355 00:31:13,116 --> 00:31:15,383 We built a CMS as part of the e-learning system. 356 00:31:16,305 --> 00:31:21,157 We built the CMS somewhere else and have it publish or approve the e-learning system. 357 00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:29,147 Or we buy a CMS with money and use that. 358 00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:35,037 And I'm going to leave it to you to make a suggestion on what will be the way forward. 359 00:31:36,838 --> 00:31:40,904 I'd like to be advised by you, architects. 360 00:31:40,924 --> 00:31:50,077 Given the nature of the content from the authors, as intellectual property, are there any security constraints? 361 00:31:50,238 --> 00:31:50,317 Yes. 362 00:31:51,631 --> 00:31:59,601 It should not be easy to share content that is displayed in our system outside our system. 363 00:32:00,162 --> 00:32:06,369 So for example, if we often give video agencies lots of money to make educational videos for us. 364 00:32:06,829 --> 00:32:14,500 So if it's on your screen here and there's a nice video and you do right click copy link. 365 00:32:14,715 --> 00:32:19,480 And then you put it on Facebook or Twitter or TikTok or whatever. 366 00:32:19,882 --> 00:32:21,343 That should not be easily possible. 367 00:32:21,884 --> 00:32:24,807 So obviously I know how browsers work. 368 00:32:24,826 --> 00:32:27,309 Anything you show here gets down to your machine. 369 00:32:27,349 --> 00:32:32,155 So if you take it from your browser cache and then over to YouTube, we cannot really mistake that. 370 00:32:32,476 --> 00:32:38,722 But it shouldn't be easy to share links to content that's in our system without having access to the system. 371 00:32:38,742 --> 00:32:40,605 What do you mean by it shouldn't be easy? 372 00:32:41,125 --> 00:32:44,390 right click, copy link, dump the link somewhere, link works. 373 00:32:45,152 --> 00:32:45,712 I don't want that. 374 00:32:47,055 --> 00:33:06,728 Yes, so if it's a link that points somewhere in the yielding system, it's fine if somebody uses access, use that link. 375 00:33:09,526 --> 00:33:13,088 Well, not really. 376 00:33:13,109 --> 00:33:21,217 We do have, obviously, our Active Directory internally that users use to log into their Windows laptops and those kind of things. 377 00:33:21,538 --> 00:33:22,739 There's no integrations there yet. 378 00:33:23,278 --> 00:33:30,286 So, well, maybe we could integrate here for our authors or maybe it's like a manual login here. 379 00:33:30,626 --> 00:33:34,190 It doesn't really matter because as I said, we have maybe a couple of tens of authors. 380 00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:37,153 So, either way, it would be fine, probably. 381 00:33:38,145 --> 00:33:46,675 Do we have a time roadmap constraint that is involved with when things are expected to be done? 382 00:33:47,496 --> 00:33:51,621 So it's now September, and the new school year has just started. 383 00:33:52,162 --> 00:33:56,807 And well, you have one deadline in education, and that's the new school year. 384 00:33:56,826 --> 00:34:04,275 So we have one year to get the system ready to have schools on board at the start of the next learning year, so 12 months from now. 385 00:34:06,877 --> 00:34:07,118 All right. 386 00:34:07,138 --> 00:34:07,578 How much? 387 00:34:08,655 --> 00:34:12,041 Do you expect to test stuff? 388 00:34:12,061 --> 00:34:14,286 Well, the sooner we can start testing, the better, obviously. 389 00:34:15,768 --> 00:34:25,987 So we want to, well, there's also the summer holidays, right, that start in like July, where every teacher goes to sleep for a couple of months. 390 00:34:26,349 --> 00:34:30,034 So preferably we would have some schools already test before that. 391 00:34:30,416 --> 00:34:32,519 So May, June, July. 392 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:36,505 And then we have the summer holiday to do the latest fixes, etc. 393 00:34:38,088 --> 00:34:42,835 So yeah, preferably we have something testable for schools and teachers as soon as possible. 394 00:34:43,215 --> 00:34:50,547 But as I said, it's even more impossible, more impossible, more necessary that authors can start creating a content as soon as possible. 395 00:34:50,686 --> 00:34:58,778 So the highest priority for now is to the functionality of the authors because then they can start as soon as possible to prepare. 396 00:34:58,978 --> 00:35:00,702 Yeah, so to give you an idea there, 397 00:35:01,086 --> 00:35:04,132 We are talking three school types. 398 00:35:05,574 --> 00:35:12,344 And a school type has, on average, let's say, six learning years. 399 00:35:13,286 --> 00:35:16,371 We provide around eight courses. 400 00:35:17,032 --> 00:35:21,420 So biology, Dutch, mathematics, English, well, about eight. 401 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,467 And every course has about 40 lessons. 402 00:35:26,628 --> 00:35:28,190 So we are talking. 403 00:35:32,963 --> 00:35:35,806 about 5,000 to 6,000 lessons that need to be created. 404 00:35:36,228 --> 00:35:37,889 And a lesson is 20 pages. 405 00:35:38,309 --> 00:35:39,672 Every page has a couple of content. 406 00:35:39,692 --> 00:35:42,376 So this is a huge amount of work. 407 00:35:42,396 --> 00:35:45,159 So we need about a year to create all this content. 408 00:35:45,701 --> 00:35:51,228 So on which day, which exact day do we need to start creating this content? 409 00:35:51,389 --> 00:35:51,768 Today. 410 00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:53,452 No, today is already late. 411 00:35:53,811 --> 00:35:54,994 Yesterday, we need to start. 412 00:35:55,094 --> 00:35:55,474 Yesterday. 413 00:35:55,675 --> 00:36:01,603 So if you're talking about risks, it's super important that we can start creating content yesterday, basically. 414 00:36:04,063 --> 00:36:05,346 Yeah, that's an interesting question. 415 00:36:05,405 --> 00:36:11,556 So obviously with the e-learning system, if we're down for more than one hour during school hours, we get in trouble. 416 00:36:12,157 --> 00:36:15,943 For the CMS, let's then assume that this is a different system, right? 417 00:36:16,385 --> 00:36:20,672 If this thing is down for an hour, I don't really care. 418 00:36:21,023 --> 00:36:22,625 The authors, they work for us. 419 00:36:22,744 --> 00:36:27,269 We can go have them drink coffee for an hour, work on Microsoft Word, draw something on paper, right? 420 00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:36,300 So the availability criteria and also the performance criteria are way different for the CMS because there's only like maybe, I don't know, 40 or 100 users. 421 00:36:37,222 --> 00:36:39,423 If it's down, they work for us, I don't really care. 422 00:36:40,465 --> 00:36:42,146 And it's also a completely different group of users. 423 00:36:42,166 --> 00:36:43,829 They are also employed by us. 424 00:36:43,849 --> 00:36:46,271 And these are paying customers, basically. 425 00:36:47,045 --> 00:36:48,025 in the CMS. 426 00:36:48,387 --> 00:36:52,072 So there are different formats, like you said, documents, movies, are there any other formats? 427 00:36:52,092 --> 00:36:55,576 Because I can imagine that for mathematics, you have to do something else. 428 00:36:55,896 --> 00:36:56,938 Yeah, yeah. 429 00:36:56,978 --> 00:37:00,262 So for mathematics, probably we need formula support and those kind of things. 430 00:37:00,802 --> 00:37:05,349 So this will have some influence on basically the rendering engines we build for those things. 431 00:37:05,409 --> 00:37:11,297 But I expect to be able to use, for example, mathematics formulas in both a text and a question, et cetera. 432 00:37:11,317 --> 00:37:12,759 So we need to figure something out there. 433 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,300 In general, it's 434 00:37:14,737 --> 00:37:15,637 markup text. 435 00:37:15,657 --> 00:37:28,007 So you could see there's like both italic underline links bullets, and then a formula for metamatics, and we should be able to integrate images, video and audio in the content. 436 00:37:28,027 --> 00:37:28,708 But that's about it. 437 00:37:28,929 --> 00:37:30,409 And then those 25 interaction types. 438 00:37:30,690 --> 00:37:37,675 I don't know, it should fit on the screen. 439 00:37:41,679 --> 00:37:44,641 I would like actually 440 00:37:45,449 --> 00:37:50,233 Well, we envision the system to be used on a web browser. 441 00:37:50,514 --> 00:37:54,599 So anything that fits well on a web browser without needing to load for hours, basically. 442 00:37:54,619 --> 00:37:59,684 It's OK if I go back to the high priority for the authors, because it is a high priority. 443 00:37:59,704 --> 00:38:11,175 It's OK also for us to give the authors, for example, a different medium for now to already start working, like an Excel file or a word. 444 00:38:11,255 --> 00:38:13,818 Anything that we can help to mitigate this risk is fine. 445 00:38:17,932 --> 00:38:24,123 Oh, yeah, so it should be best effort available during office hours, I would say. 446 00:38:24,744 --> 00:38:29,652 So if it's down for the whole day, the business units are going to complain. 447 00:38:30,153 --> 00:38:34,240 If it's down for a couple of hours per month, we'll get away with that. 448 00:38:34,260 --> 00:38:41,514 In the early stage, you also mentioned low-co-influence by customers in the current system. 449 00:38:41,534 --> 00:38:42,355 Where is that related to you? 450 00:38:42,452 --> 00:38:49,106 Because there's often errors in the current system, it's not available, it's slow, those kind of things. 451 00:38:52,512 --> 00:38:57,322 You see, is it at the right assumption that schools do use different web browsers? 452 00:38:57,673 --> 00:39:08,048 Yeah, so in terms of how they use the system, we envision it to be used mainly in classrooms on laptops and tablets. 453 00:39:08,068 --> 00:39:10,972 So mobile phones are nice to have, but not really important. 454 00:39:11,773 --> 00:39:15,539 Tablets are usually, well, probably not iPads because they're expensive. 455 00:39:16,019 --> 00:39:20,927 Android tablets and web browsers on laptops or Chromebooks. 456 00:39:20,947 --> 00:39:26,414 So it should work well on relatively low-powered devices with a modern browser. 457 00:39:26,394 --> 00:39:32,601 So we usually support the last one, two versions of modern browsers, so like Chrome, Firefox, Edge. 458 00:39:34,023 --> 00:39:34,842 Just browsers, look them up in the top. 459 00:39:34,862 --> 00:39:36,885 Yeah, no, browsers is fine, of course. 460 00:39:36,985 --> 00:39:48,516 We don't have capabilities to build mobile apps, and we also don't really strategically see it necessary to do so. 461 00:39:48,536 --> 00:39:55,744 So there's one big thing you've missed so far, and it's part of number two of that list. 462 00:39:56,163 --> 00:39:57,485 Any questions regarding that? 463 00:40:00,793 --> 00:40:03,681 What's your most important goal? 464 00:40:04,643 --> 00:40:05,505 That's a great question. 465 00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:13,985 Our goal is to become market leader in evening systems for these three school types in the Netherlands. 466 00:40:14,336 --> 00:40:20,626 So zooming in on that, what is the acceptance criteria for being a market? 467 00:40:20,867 --> 00:40:22,289 What does that mean in practice? 468 00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:24,572 What is it being a market leader? 469 00:40:24,592 --> 00:40:25,653 How did we achieve the goal? 470 00:40:25,713 --> 00:40:35,590 That the majority of all schools in the Netherlands in our three school types use our system on a, let's say a daily basis. 471 00:40:35,610 --> 00:40:37,813 What is the current problem with the competitors? 472 00:40:39,329 --> 00:40:42,894 You mean with us, between us and them? 473 00:40:43,757 --> 00:40:51,771 Well, I'd say rich, really rich content. 474 00:40:52,331 --> 00:41:03,733 And those 25 interaction types is also something that we tend to distinguish from the others so that we can build a good educational experience, but also an experience that looks nice, that feels rich, and that is easy to use. 475 00:41:05,181 --> 00:41:08,784 So still about goal, you're missing one vital question. 476 00:41:08,864 --> 00:41:12,467 Yeah, but you mentioned all the time the 25 interaction type. 477 00:41:12,568 --> 00:41:14,650 I cannot imagine which ones those are. 478 00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:24,838 Well, we have UX designers who will design those in correlation with our content architect. 479 00:41:24,878 --> 00:41:28,822 Think back about what I was saying about companies in general. 480 00:41:30,423 --> 00:41:31,905 What's the goal of any commercial company? 481 00:41:32,204 --> 00:41:33,465 Make them make them. 482 00:41:33,485 --> 00:41:34,547 Any questions on this? 483 00:41:35,876 --> 00:41:40,003 Oh yes, so we make money by selling licenses. 484 00:41:40,023 --> 00:41:44,210 So there needs to be a licensing system. 485 00:41:48,476 --> 00:41:52,222 The licensing, you're lucky because the licensing part is already built. 486 00:41:52,423 --> 00:41:53,885 It's in the IAM system. 487 00:41:54,422 --> 00:41:59,289 So you could actually call it an alarm, maybe a license and access system. 488 00:42:00,030 --> 00:42:02,994 And the model here is that students need to have a license. 489 00:42:03,655 --> 00:42:09,023 So every student needs to have a license for every ISBN they access. 490 00:42:09,405 --> 00:42:12,628 So you buy a license for school type course learning year. 491 00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:20,159 So you buy a license to have access to the content for biology, secondary education, second year for one year. 492 00:42:20,139 --> 00:42:22,503 A license like this costs about 100 euros. 493 00:42:23,005 --> 00:42:30,056 That's about the same price as you would spend on books for a school type course learning year combination. 494 00:42:30,076 --> 00:42:34,603 Any license is available for one year? 495 00:42:35,784 --> 00:42:37,407 Yes. 496 00:42:37,487 --> 00:42:40,913 Sometimes there's another external system that's over here. 497 00:42:41,114 --> 00:42:41,894 This is our webshop. 498 00:42:43,782 --> 00:42:48,827 And this system, it's kind of out of scope for us because it connects to the IAM. 499 00:42:49,387 --> 00:43:04,204 So how usually students get a license is the IAM also supports exchanging a voucher code to activate a license. 500 00:43:04,224 --> 00:43:07,288 So the blocks you see here, these are all activate licenses. 501 00:43:07,307 --> 00:43:10,751 You have an activate license for biology, second year, secondary school. 502 00:43:10,731 --> 00:43:13,342 Initially, if you come on this screen, it will look like this. 503 00:43:13,583 --> 00:43:13,983 It's empty. 504 00:43:14,045 --> 00:43:15,168 You have no activated devices. 505 00:43:15,972 --> 00:43:17,838 There's a box here at the bottom. 506 00:43:19,068 --> 00:43:21,132 And here you can copy paste a voucher code. 507 00:43:21,592 --> 00:43:26,242 And a voucher code is a code of, I don't know, 10 characters, could be UID or something. 508 00:43:26,702 --> 00:43:30,130 And if you enter that voucher code here, the IM should validate. 509 00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:31,994 That's a valid voucher code for an ISBN. 510 00:43:32,375 --> 00:43:33,195 And then it activates. 511 00:43:33,235 --> 00:43:38,706 And then you get the accompanying, well, a piece of content here. 512 00:43:38,847 --> 00:43:40,992 And you can click this and then go here. 513 00:43:40,972 --> 00:43:48,199 So those voucher codes, they get generated via the user interface of the IAM by an administrator. 514 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,463 And either a school can buy voucher codes in bulk. 515 00:43:51,483 --> 00:43:54,186 So a school says, give me 30 or 60 license codes for this. 516 00:43:54,806 --> 00:43:57,150 Or you can buy individual license codes in a web shop. 517 00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:00,673 And then this interface with the IAM to make sure the license code is there. 518 00:44:00,693 --> 00:44:10,083 So what I forgot when we were talking about this earlier is the IAM system also sends a list of ISBNs in the profile. 519 00:44:10,621 --> 00:44:19,099 So once the user logs in, we don't only know their name, their ID, their name, their school, but we also know speed license stays activated. 520 00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:25,693 So on the start screen in the e-learning system, we can show them also which courses they can select. 521 00:44:26,155 --> 00:44:30,704 Or maybe even if you click here on the white one, you directly jump to the correct course, for example. 522 00:44:31,882 --> 00:44:35,750 So students need a license, teachers do not need a license. 523 00:44:35,769 --> 00:44:37,992 They can see all the content in the system. 524 00:44:38,775 --> 00:44:40,418 And this is for cross and upselling purposes. 525 00:44:40,677 --> 00:44:48,271 So a teacher may convince their principal that they need to buy vouchers to use course XYZ as well. 526 00:44:48,672 --> 00:44:49,353 So they have access to everything? 527 00:44:49,373 --> 00:44:53,260 Yes, teachers access to everything. 528 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:53,860 And what makes you a teacher? 529 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:54,702 What makes you a teacher? 530 00:44:54,952 --> 00:45:07,692 Well, it's a philosophical question, but in the concept of our system, a teacher is usually onboarded by the school admin. 531 00:45:08,231 --> 00:45:11,657 So the school admin is somebody who can log into your system. 532 00:45:12,197 --> 00:45:15,103 So you may call them an actor in your words. 533 00:45:15,463 --> 00:45:23,675 So what the school admin does is configures two things in the system, groups and teachers. 534 00:45:24,684 --> 00:45:33,036 So if a new school onboard the system, an admin, which is another person that accesses the system, by the way. 535 00:45:33,516 --> 00:45:35,378 So an admin is somebody who works on our help desk. 536 00:45:35,478 --> 00:45:41,626 So we have an help desk and this help desk picks up the phone when a school calls or people report a ticket or something. 537 00:45:42,086 --> 00:45:48,434 Our help desk can log in to the system as an admin and they will onboard a new school in the system. 538 00:45:48,454 --> 00:45:52,340 So a school in a system has a name. 539 00:45:53,961 --> 00:45:54,523 It has a 540 00:45:55,398 --> 00:45:57,079 Basis Registratie Installing Number. 541 00:45:58,001 --> 00:46:01,065 And it has a linked school admin account. 542 00:46:02,768 --> 00:46:06,873 So when we onboard a new school, we enter the name, the Bryn, and we create a school admin account. 543 00:46:07,135 --> 00:46:14,824 A school admin is usually the IT coordinator or the generator or somebody who has a coordinating role in the school. 544 00:46:14,844 --> 00:46:19,731 And the school admin then can proceed to create teacher accounts. 545 00:46:20,112 --> 00:46:21,675 So give teachers access to the system. 546 00:46:22,215 --> 00:46:23,818 So a teacher can see all the content. 547 00:46:24,202 --> 00:46:25,945 But a school admin can also create groups. 548 00:46:26,465 --> 00:46:29,210 And a group corresponds to a group in a classroom. 549 00:46:29,570 --> 00:46:37,159 So a group may be secondary education, biology, second year, and then 2A or something. 550 00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:37,760 It has a name. 551 00:46:38,922 --> 00:46:49,576 And a group is also linked to an ISBN because a group is a group for biology, for example, ISBN. 552 00:46:50,197 --> 00:46:53,181 And then a group has a teacher and has students. 553 00:46:53,802 --> 00:46:56,965 So this group is also kind of an access mechanism. 554 00:46:57,547 --> 00:47:01,532 It also dictates to which students the teacher is linked. 555 00:47:01,552 --> 00:47:05,998 So a teacher can only see the progress for groups that a teacher is linked to. 556 00:47:06,257 --> 00:47:15,429 So in general, the flow for teacher will be log into the system, select which group you have in front of you, and then the teacher will see the progress for this group. 557 00:47:16,731 --> 00:47:19,675 So you have an admin, you have a school admin, 558 00:47:20,110 --> 00:47:31,164 So the admin creates a school admin, the school admin creates a teacher, and the students are automatically enrolled when they choose a certain course. 559 00:47:31,985 --> 00:47:41,896 And they are added to the, they are presented during logging with the SBNs of the courses that they are part of. 560 00:47:41,916 --> 00:47:46,842 And the teacher can see who is in the group for a certain SBN. 561 00:47:47,543 --> 00:47:50,067 But you have different schools. 562 00:47:50,047 --> 00:47:57,056 And so a group is also always within the context of a school. 563 00:47:57,237 --> 00:47:59,599 So there's a group also as a brim, you could say. 564 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:01,822 All right. 565 00:48:01,842 --> 00:48:05,949 Do you see different representation per target group? 566 00:48:06,329 --> 00:48:10,155 Because I can imagine for elementary school, you buy something for a whole year. 567 00:48:10,295 --> 00:48:11,996 So I buy it on a class level. 568 00:48:12,177 --> 00:48:14,760 So all my 30 students do the biology. 569 00:48:14,780 --> 00:48:17,724 But for vocational, it could be different. 570 00:48:18,126 --> 00:48:27,065 Yeah, so the license model is you can only buy content for one learning year, for one school type, for one course. 571 00:48:27,505 --> 00:48:30,251 So even if you use it only two months, you still need to buy it for the whole year. 572 00:48:31,554 --> 00:48:33,958 Things are a bit different between primary and secondary. 573 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:39,190 So in secondary, you are usually a biology teacher, and you teach biology to three groups. 574 00:48:39,170 --> 00:48:44,476 In primary education, you're usually the teacher for group 1A, where you teach everything. 575 00:48:44,916 --> 00:48:53,864 But then still, you may choose to use our material for Dutch and English, and use a Voltersklierer for mathematics, for example. 576 00:48:53,885 --> 00:49:01,572 So depending on how much courses you use from us, the students need to have individual licenses for each of those for the current learning year. 577 00:49:02,233 --> 00:49:07,860 So if we teach eight courses, then the maximum amount of money we can get from one student is 800 euros a year. 578 00:49:08,195 --> 00:49:08,596 How much? 579 00:49:08,615 --> 00:49:10,057 800, so eight times 100. 580 00:49:10,177 --> 00:49:11,659 The licenses are about 100 euros. 581 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,503 Because they have eight courses maximum. 582 00:49:13,643 --> 00:49:20,653 Yeah, we only offer eight courses for now, so maybe more in the future. 583 00:49:27,262 --> 00:49:37,137 Well, the authors, so in terms of hierarchy, a business unit has a main publisher. 584 00:49:37,472 --> 00:49:38,614 So this is a bit confusing. 585 00:49:38,675 --> 00:49:40,938 We are a publisher, but publisher is also a role. 586 00:49:40,958 --> 00:49:42,298 So the publisher is the outgiver. 587 00:49:42,378 --> 00:49:47,005 It's the chief of content for secondary education. 588 00:49:47,025 --> 00:49:54,034 Then below this, below the publisher, there's usually content managers or head of content. 589 00:49:54,054 --> 00:49:55,056 And these are per course. 590 00:49:55,076 --> 00:50:02,565 So you're the head of secondary education, but below you works ahead of biology for secondary education. 591 00:50:02,585 --> 00:50:05,909 And then this content manager controls one or more authors. 592 00:50:06,666 --> 00:50:10,594 So whatever content gets created goes basically to this hierarchy. 593 00:50:11,016 --> 00:50:22,280 Those content managers usually are also responsible for approving content that gets published to production basically. 594 00:50:22,942 --> 00:50:24,405 Yeah, they need to be reviewed. 595 00:50:26,342 --> 00:50:29,967 Well, this is something that's like a process-wise workflow. 596 00:50:30,007 --> 00:50:31,650 It's not something we need to support for now. 597 00:50:31,831 --> 00:50:39,320 So in theory, a rogue content creator could, by themselves, push content to production. 598 00:50:39,702 --> 00:50:45,449 But maybe the Publish to Production button may only be available for content managers, for the ad publisher. 599 00:50:45,769 --> 00:50:52,318 So there will need to be some kind of authorization structure in the workflow for content. 600 00:50:55,384 --> 00:50:56,264 To be researched. 601 00:50:57,172 --> 00:50:58,614 What's your budget? 602 00:50:58,635 --> 00:50:58,936 Budget. 603 00:51:00,217 --> 00:51:01,860 And why is this a relevant question? 604 00:51:03,262 --> 00:51:03,983 We know the timeline. 605 00:51:04,605 --> 00:51:07,048 We sort of know what we need to buy, what we need to build. 606 00:51:11,016 --> 00:51:13,239 If you decide on the next step, I would feel very sorry. 607 00:51:13,260 --> 00:51:14,822 Yeah, so why is budget a relevant question? 608 00:51:14,842 --> 00:51:16,465 It is a relevant question, but why is it relevant? 609 00:51:17,795 --> 00:51:26,666 Well, if they want to achieve their goal, it shouldn't be defeated by the cost of the architecture. 610 00:51:27,849 --> 00:51:38,704 So if K says, we have budget for one developer for one year, then you're probably going to say, okay, Ks, good luck, but I'm going to work somewhere else because we cannot do the one developer. 611 00:51:39,144 --> 00:51:42,969 If K said we have budget for 100 developers, okay, then we can probably do it, right? 612 00:51:45,414 --> 00:51:46,215 And also, if we need to start yesterday, 613 00:51:48,085 --> 00:52:00,418 So each of those three business units have promised me budget for about one team of five to seven people for one year. 614 00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:10,971 So we have at least enough money to hire or pay for, let's say, well, three business units, so 15 to 21 people for one year. 615 00:52:10,951 --> 00:52:14,775 which I think should generally be sufficient to build this system. 616 00:52:15,916 --> 00:52:22,181 It's not super much, a lot, way too much, but it's also not way too little. 617 00:52:22,202 --> 00:52:25,706 So it'll probably be doable with 15 to 21 people. 618 00:52:26,246 --> 00:52:30,110 In case of the CMS, we may decide to build or to buy. 619 00:52:31,572 --> 00:52:37,498 Well, if we buy it, then we may get some of the budget for people and use it to buy a system, for example. 620 00:52:38,541 --> 00:52:48,871 So let's say a budget for one person, we can either hire them to work for us on the payroll, or we're confident we can hire quite some people quickly. 621 00:52:49,753 --> 00:53:00,483 If not, then we are confident we can hire external consultants, for example, from amazing companies like OpenValue to help us there. 622 00:53:00,902 --> 00:53:04,887 And in terms of budget, let's say that we have, well, an external consultant 623 00:53:04,867 --> 00:53:09,635 1600 hours in a year times earn a euro is 160k. 624 00:53:09,934 --> 00:53:15,063 So we have enough budget to hire, let's say 20 people for the 60k. 625 00:53:15,083 --> 00:53:20,891 So this is about the amount of money that the business units have promised to us. 626 00:53:23,757 --> 00:53:24,818 One team per business unit. 627 00:53:25,460 --> 00:53:30,047 So 5 to 7 per business unit, so 15 to 21 in total. 628 00:53:30,820 --> 00:53:39,773 Have there been already done a study case for existing CMSs that already exist and service that the needs that we have for the content? 629 00:53:39,813 --> 00:53:48,666 No, we haven't done this, but it may be a good idea to put this only to be researched further. 630 00:53:51,110 --> 00:53:53,293 We're about to wrap up. 631 00:53:54,876 --> 00:53:56,137 Two more questions I can take. 632 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,304 What is the scope of this study? 633 00:54:00,621 --> 00:54:01,523 What is out of scope? 634 00:54:04,969 --> 00:54:20,177 So obviously we may be able to scope the project a bit by not delivering all 25 interaction types on the day we go live, but maybe 15 or 20 or maybe even 10. 635 00:54:20,697 --> 00:54:24,925 But this will cause rework because authors will need to update the questions later. 636 00:54:25,545 --> 00:54:31,918 We also do not need to have all those 5,000 lessons ready on day one. 637 00:54:32,398 --> 00:54:36,204 We need to have the content for the first month of the learning year ready on day one. 638 00:54:36,224 --> 00:54:39,130 And then we have another month to make the content for the second learning year. 639 00:54:39,150 --> 00:54:41,175 So this will cut down a little bit on the problem there. 640 00:54:41,635 --> 00:54:48,027 It's still a huge problem because making 5,000 lessons is a couple of man years of work, obviously, maybe tens of man years of work. 641 00:54:49,492 --> 00:54:50,514 What is out of scope? 642 00:54:50,873 --> 00:54:53,157 We don't need to interface with the school systems. 643 00:54:53,177 --> 00:54:56,322 There's no integration with exam systems or anything. 644 00:54:56,802 --> 00:54:59,347 Parents don't need to be in there or basically the stuff we discussed. 645 00:55:03,273 --> 00:55:03,753 Final question? 646 00:55:07,059 --> 00:55:14,250 The grading should be done automatically. 647 00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:20,266 So as a result, we can probably for now only have closed questions that can be created automatically. 648 00:55:20,726 --> 00:55:26,773 We may use like, I don't know, LLMs in the future to automatically create open questions, but for now only closed questions. 649 00:55:28,735 --> 00:55:30,739 It's a number. 650 00:55:30,759 --> 00:55:31,519 Yeah. 651 00:55:31,539 --> 00:55:32,740 Yeah. 652 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:33,121 Yeah. 653 00:55:33,141 --> 00:55:33,521 Yeah. 654 00:55:33,541 --> 00:55:34,001 Yeah. 655 00:55:34,021 --> 00:55:36,284 Yeah. 656 00:55:36,304 --> 00:55:36,585 All right. 657 00:55:36,625 --> 00:55:37,525 That's it. 658 00:55:39,208 --> 00:55:42,431 I hope you got what you came for and maybe a bit more.